A Brief Word of Caution Regarding Joe and Nicole Naugler, The “Off-Grid” Homeschooling Family
By R.L. Stollar, HA Community Coordinator
Have you seen the article going around entitled, “BREAKING: Police Seize 10 Children From Homeschool Family Because They’re Off-Grid”? The one about the “off-grid” homeschoolers, Joe and Nicole Naugler, whose children were allegedly stolen because of the family’s off-grid lifestyle? (Karen Campbell’s Relationship Homeschooling and HSLDA’s ParentalRights.org shared it today.)
Please know that there is so much more to know about the Nauglers than meets the eye in this case: allegations of theft, illegal transportation, fleeing the law, threatening neighbors with death, child neglect, and more. Homeschoolers and unschoolers that actually know the family are cautioning people that this family is troubled. HA blog partner Kathryn Brightbill is working on a summary of the situation that we will crosspost and share once it is complete. (It is complete! Read it here.) In the mean time, please exercise caution (and encourage your friends on social media to do so as well) before promoting their story and/or giving them money.
Update, 05/08/2015, 2:41 pm Pacific: The following image was shared by the family’s mother, Nicole Naugler, on Facebook. Nicole described it as the intake call against them:
Furthermore, Nicole has revealed that her children do not have identification documents:
This can lead to situations of identification abuse, as we have documented in our 2015 Survey of Identification Abuse Within Homeschooling and seen in the stories of Alecia Pennington, Cynthia Jeub, and Eleanor Skelton.
Update, 05/08/2015, 5:23 pm Pacific: Kathryn Brightbill has finished her excellent synopsis of what’s going with Joe and Nicole Naugler. The situation is highly complicated and, as Kathryn points out, “What these things do demonstrate, at the very least, is that this family desperately needs help and they ought not be lifted up by homeschoolers as martyrs for the movement.” Read Kathryn’s synopsis here.
Homeschoolers Anonymous 
Thank you for speaking up. We know this family and have wanted others to know this as well. There is do much more than meets the eye…
There seems to be conflicting info when it comes to people who know the family. Would you mind clarifying in exactly what manner you know the family? Assuming that if you know them you have spent time with them? You have concerns, mind sharing specific interactions you have had with them?
Ill bet they know how to survive tho and hoe weeds.
Last I checked, mere survival, as in not dying, and hoeing weeds are not really marketable skills. Can they read and write as well?
Last I checked, “marketable skills” are merely a more sophisticated means of survival (wage slavery to pay rent and buy groceries) used by those who don’t know how to survive on their own.
@Bob Graham, I think I’ll have to disagree with you, and the reason why, is simple. This family has more knowledge when it comes to survival then the average American, and I’d even bet their knowledge goes far beyond even you high school/college graduate that can read and write.
I can guarantee if there was to be some type of natural disaster/economic collapse and your wife was in labour and no hospital in site, this family would be the first to be called upon.
Her knowledge/skills on things you consider to be non marketable would turn her into the wisest in her community in a survival situation.
Anything and everything is marketable as long as what you got to offer Is needed.
We know them too and it doesn’t matter what you say… no one will listen. These are two con artists. This is what they set out to do. If you don’t think they knew CPS wasn’t coming out there ahead of time. HA!! They planned all of this, websites, audio, ALL OF IT!! They don’t homestead. They just pulled the biggest con on all you and you fell for it. They stay in trouble with the law because they bully people, steal, and do everything they can to get what they want. I’ve been inside their home and not by choice. I had to walk around human feces all over the floor and not mentioning what they spread all over the wall. ( I suppose they did that “back in the day” also) she had a three bedroom home and closed off every single bedroom so the entire family could sleep in the living room on the floor with the fecal matter. This is how warped these people are. They were given beds and furniture from a local church and SOLD them! The children were running around nude and looked like they hadn’t bathed in months! They also smelled horrible and their hair was matted beyond running a comb through it. Yes, they had running water!! They bullied the local clergy for rent money and after he grew tired of paying their rent several months due to Joe being lazy and not working. The clergyman refused to give them anymore money so he was threatened by Joe. The owner of the home gave them 30 days to vacate for failure to pay rent and take care of property so The Nauglers left and left buckets of feces throughout the home and took a hatchet or hammer to the walls and floors and destroyed the inside. The owners tried to prosecute but was told it would cost more to prosecute and it would be a waste of time cause they had no money. They left the property in horrible condition. They will get clothes and dress their kids and take pictures like they are the happiest family to post on social media because they are trying to show law enforcement, ” hey look at me, I take care of my kids.” When in reality they don’t! The kids are treated like slaves and there have been over dozens of witnesses to this and yes many reported to CPS, but they would move or hide and honestly CPS does not do their job here in KY. This is why they moved here. She has social media and will manipulate it to make them look like they work so hard and take care of their family…it’s all a con and it is my hope that the truth comes out. Someone somewhere has got to stand up for those kids. If it’s not a corrupt CPS then who? Honestly, all you people can say is they arrested her unlawfully. No they did not. That Sheriff is a good man and does a lot of good in the community. She knew they were coming. Those two planned all of this and just duped all of you. Hilarious! So she can groom dogs and open up a business (that has four walls mind you) but not have an adequate living space for 10 children?! If you think that shack or whatever that was is a home for 10 children and they say she is pregnant again, than YOU are pretty stupid! Keep donating money to them cause they will be in jail or prison before you know it. You could give them a million dollars and they would squander it away… That’s their mentality. Trust me when I tell you they will not use one dime to provide those kids with an education, or a bed to sleep in and since so many of you knowledgable people who say you don’t need a bed to sleep in but yet I’m sure lay your head down on one every night… this is 2015!! Children deserve a bed to sleep in, an education, and a decent home that protects them from the rain and snow!
> this is 2015!! Children deserve a bed to sleep in, an education, and a decent home that protects them from the rain and snow!
In your view, should children be taken away from their parents if they aren’t provided with a bed to sleep in, a state-sanctioned education, and a home that adequately protects them (by your standards) from the rain and snow?
Should “unschooling” be considered illegal, in your opinion?
If other parents voted that children “deserve” a free car from their parents and you didn’t want to give yours a free car, how would you feel if the government were to take your children away and give them to families who would give them a free car?
its called ABUSE!!! @Thisisreallyray read my comment…or are you unschooled too??
You’ve decided to call it “abuse” as though that gives more weight to your argument, but that’s a completely arbitrary judgement on your part. I disagree that it’s “abuse” and I disagree that, even if it were “abuse”, we ought to step in and kidnap the children because of it.
Let’s have a rational discussion instead of you crying out your emotions at me. I’m not unschooled, but I have nothing against anyone who is.
@ReallyRay you don’t even know what arbitrary means. Yes I called it abuse …but moreover, yesterday in the court of law…HIS SON CALLED IT ABUSE!!! Hmmm…. I believe he told the NATIONAL MEDIA he was physically, mentally, and sexually abused by his father! So yea ReallyRay, maybe he just decided to abuse him and not the other ten. Do your research before you make yourself look unschooled. Yes, the state has every right and obviously exercised their right to put those kids in good homes. Its called Child Protection Services, and regardless what your opinion is, it was legal!!! So go find an appropriate profile picture instead of showing your body parts to everyone! Not a very good choice on a Homeschooling page and I hope you don’t have children because I could see why you know so much about CPS.
ThisIsReallyRay, How can you equate a free car with clean water and not having to tramp through a crap smeared floor, outside, in your bare feet all year long?! Safe, clean and sanitary living conditions for everyone, boy, that’s some entitled thinking there.
Your allegations are pretty intense and severe, if true. just by reading about this family, her blogs and seeing her photos, I had suspicions that all was not what she painted it to be.
If you had occasion to meet this family, are you (or why not) prepared to testify to what you saw? It is good for the curious among us to get first-hand accounts that contrast to the PR picture Nicole Naughler wishes to paint, however if everyone is hiding in the clock of anonymity, it doesn’t help matters.
If what you say about this family is true, the kids should not live with their parents, regardless of whatever brainwashed love they feel towards them. It would be tragic to break up the siblings, but NO child should have to live in a household of filth, to have to move constantly, to suffer freezing winters in a shack, without running water or heat, to not get medical attention or the benefit of a real homeschool or formal school education.
Btw I ran across this and was utterly shocked. It is Nicole’s home birth graphically shown for the entire world to see. And obviously all of her children witnessed this as well:
http://blessedlittlehomestead.blogspot.com/2014/03/a-beautiful-chunky-baby.html?m=1
I’ve been extremely busy but had the TV on and over heard some of the
original news story. From what I heard, I thought these folks were in
trouble for allegedly attempting a theft and threatening someone during
the act. Basically, sort of an attempted strong arm robbery. Mostly the
next thing I over heard was about an internet drive raising money to
give the family. Wow, wasn’t I was confused. A reward for teaching
10 children forcefully steal? Or, The first report was an egregious mistake?
What “meets my eye” is the ambiguity of the letter. No running water or septic? So? They’ve got 26 acres! A “makeshift” shed? Is that anything like the CHFS department’s “makeshift” investigators who are “makeshift” humans?
Two “makeshift” tents that IN THE OPINION of the drafter have insufficient room.
No fence around the pond? So? Maybe the writer would like the children to wear helmets and life vests at all times? With body armor? And steel-toed boots? Add a swastika and it begins to sound like a CHFS uniform.
And the kicker, “CHFS does not FEEL like the children are safe”.
After reading this letter, I FEEL that CHFS should be completely defunded and all the employees fired. Are my FEELINGS any less valid than the writer’s? How about some FACTS? The threshold for state intervention should be a high one, not some “makeshift” “feelings” of a “makeshift” investigator.
If you do not have access to safe drinking water you are failing to provide the most basic of needs for your children and yes, if the children are abused, CPS has an OBLIGATION to remove the children from the home. Children are not possessions to do with whatever you please.
kentucky has a law that requires fencing around swimming areas.
You can’t be serious. Have you seen the pictures? My horse has a better house than them! Its only got 3 walls and is in no way sufficient to house 10 children. Maybe you should check your FACTS before defending these terrible people.
I don’t know about anyone else, but I remember quite a few things when I was four years old, I think even earlier than that.
A child is a sponge, I think as we get older is when we forget most things. If the older son had been abused, and everything is true about the terrible conditions they lived in, and the children having no education at all. People can say it’s okay that’s how I was raised, poor with nothing.
It’s one thing to be raised poor, nothing, but with love, and support, but it’s another thing to be raised poor, nothing, not a lot of love, no support, no education, no values, and in an unsanitary condition. I’m sorry, but people decide they’re going to have children they need to know that they are the parent of that child, not to try making that child raise it’s self. I wasn’t raised in the best home, it was somewhat dysfunctional.
What some people don’t understand is the emotional, psychological traumas children can have later in life, because of the way their parents raised them, or treated them. Most of the times what happens in our past determines our future.
And these children are tomorrows future.
Warning! The link below is to Nicole Naughler’s blog on her home birth. It contains very graphic photos of her birthing a baby, in the nude, complete with blood and poo.
I find it ironic that these parents see no need for birth certificates, but mom is happy to post these photos out there for the world to see.
Her entire brood of children witnessed the birth. If they want to have a group cheering squad while she on all fours, popping out a baby, have at it. But really—–having young or adolescent boys watch their mother walk around a tiny cabin, laboring naked, moaning in pain? Having them watch the entire birth with its messiness?? Might be disturbing?
Leaves me with questions on how this affects the Naughler children psychologically.
The more I read about the Naughlers, the more the parents seem to have an insular, cult-like mindset.
What do others here think about her chronicling the home birth in its graphic detail?
http://blessedlittlehomestead.blogspot.com/2014/03/a-beautiful-chunky-baby.html?m=1
sorry I posted this twice, didn’t mean to
You description of the home birth was enough for me. I don’t that would be appropriate for kids to watch. This family is just sick. Nicole was raised Catholic and they profess to be Mormon. I’m sure the pro life stances of these churches are something that they use to justify having all these kids. I guess it is also empowering to them- since they aren’t successful at much else.
It’s unfortunate that you find such a natural process — the process by which most of us came into this world — to be so disgusting. You may want to shield your own children from the reality of birthing so that they’ll turn out as squeamish about it as you are — and none of us will stop you — but what gives you the right to prevent us from allowing our children to view birthing, or to attack us as sick, bad parents, or bad people in general, because of it?
What is your hang up with home birth lady? People have given birth naturally for millions of yrs. Just because you find it “offensive” and “gross”, doesn’t mean others do. People like you are the problem. Thinking your opinion is the only one, and that you are right and they are wrong. Regardless of what they have or have not done, how they choose to birth their children is none of your, or anyone else business. What would be sufficient to you? In a hospital setting, with the children in the waiting room as to not be “scarred” by the natural process of birth?! You’ve got issues lady. People home birth everyday, and in front of their children, and it’s beautiful and natural. Only people with sick minds try twist something beautiful and natural into something bad. Shame on you.
Thank you.
Reblogged this on Armor Of God Foundation.
I saw pictures of the supposed home on Facebook and it is a tough shed that has windows put in it. The beds are altogether in the same room and there are no walls for privacy for the girls and boys to be separate when dressing, etc. I think CPS did the right thing here. Also Nicole starts getting paranoid and tells the cops she knows he is there to kill her as that is what cops do.
Your post is hard to understand. Who is “he.” The husband or the cops? Apparently the cops, but cops are “they.”
.
Excellent reason to kidnap people’s children.
I am a nurse and I have to says the 10 kids are the healthiest and happiest looking kids I have seen in a long while. Have there been charges of any kind of violence or sexual abuse? I have not heard of any. Kids look like they are having a blast!!
The sheriff went to the property because a neighbor had filed a complaint that the man and two of his children had come onto her property to steal water and that he had threatened her, even sending one of the children to get a gun.
Those kids don’t know any different so they are happy with what they have. Now that they are in different homes they will see what they don’t have and realize where the parents failed them. I wish for those children the best even if it means taking them away from parents that did not bother to give them the basic essentials. What ever life the parents chose for themselves was their choice but the children do not deserve this. Let the evidence speak for itself, the oldest son now an adult, had the guts to stand up and say was his life was like with them maybe now he is trying to save the younger children so give him some credibility.
Mod Edit: please review our comment policy and stick to it. This comment was unacceptable. Thank you.
https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/forum/
A 1 room dwelling! How criminal! My mother grew up in a one room home also. Too bad CPS did not exist back then to rescue her from her obviously irrisponsible and criminal parents I called grandma and grandpa… Oh wait they were POOR and doing the best they could. Lighten up a bit on your fellow American family trying to do the best they can with what they have. Maybe if we leave them alone long enough they can actually accumulate some wealth and do better for themselves someday.
Was her 1 room dwelling lacking a wall? Was it filled with human and animal excrement? Did she lack for remotely clean drinking water?
@Cara
Minor details. She survived as did the Naugler children. And I’m willing to bet that the Naugler’s think as lowly of your debt McMansion in the suburbs as you do of their humble country abode. Now wouldn’t it be great if we could all live as we like without either party trying to incriminate or kidnap the children of the other party?
Just to clarify. The Naugler’s did have a prefab shed with windows, a door, and a loft when they first moved to Naugler Hill. The cost of this shed was $6500 according to their Blessed Little Homestead page in October or November of 2013. That she was either repossessed or the Naugler’s voluntarily had it removed. They claimed on their blog that they decided to start from scratch and build their house from scratch. So this is what they live in. It’s NOT the cabin prefab cabin with proper roof and woodstove. ALL that has disappeared. So when they claim it takes time to build their homestead- that’s a lie. They started off with a suitable structure, that could have been insulated and drywalled or have beadboard or knotty pine. it wouldn’t have a place I’d want to live, but it would have been a sight better than what they live in now!
Hi, I know the Naugler family and I would like to say a few things. While it is always a good idea to keep an abundance of caution when reading stories online, I can assure you that the Naugler family is not in the wrong here. They are living a simple life, homesteading. Though it may not be what many of us would choose for our own families, it is great for their family. They have not chosen a huge home, but it is an adequate home and it meets their needs and keeps their family close. Their children are very happy and have a huge acreage to play on. Many children in this country to not even have a backyard. Also, this family is pretty much an open book. They have been chronicling their family online for a number of years. Again, while it is wise to have caution, please do not paint the family to be something they are not. They are a good family being unfairly persecuted right now.
Yeah, a huge acreage with “piles of garbage, broken glass and nails”. Such lovely toys for them to play with. And reasonably priced, too, I’m sure.
/sarcasm
You don’t like it? Since when were you placed at th center of the Universe?
.
You know in other countries like Finland they allow children to play with such things to learn what they should and should not do. Technically, it is better for their development. Hell the kids there even set fire to their play grounds. It’s under adult supervision so why not?
Additionally, giving birth at home is not illegal. Home schooling is not illegal. Living in a small home is not illegal. Do we want the government to dictate the bedrooms we must have now?
Yes because having the best and most expensive gift are the only way a child could possible be happy or loved… Give me a break… These kids all have smiles on their face, clothes on their back and don’t look like they’ve missed a meal.
CPS and the law in this county needs to be arrested for the crimes they have committed thus far.
Unless I’m mistaken don’t the law need to show a warrant? And what was the initial crime made by the parents, I mean you do have to be charged with something, don’t you.
I guess there is that possibility I’m wrong.
If piles of garbage, glass and nails is reason for cps to take kids, 10’s of millions of city raised kids would be rounded up..
Well, if there was such an immediate danger to the children, why didn’t the sheriff that has over 20 years experience, that claims he knows what was doing take the children upon contact, take the endangered children into custody to protect them from this filth?
Thank you 🙂
Oh yes, they have been chronicling EVERYTHING. Really, is this necessary?? See the extremely graphic photos:
http://blessedlittlehomestead.blogspot.com/2014/03/a-beautiful-chunky-baby.html?m=1
CPS needs to mind their own business! Let these parents raise their children as they see fit! Those kids will grow up a hell of a lot better than the spoiled, pampered kids these days, and as long as they’re healthy and happy, it’s NOBODY’S business! Kids 100 years ago had no trouble growing up on the land, roughing it, and depending on God and nature for their needs. If I could, I’d give everything I have, up, and go off the grid, myself. I envy a family like this! They’re absolutely doing what’s BEST for their family. And to the idiot who authored this, who cares if they choose not to have birth certificates and ss#….is that detrimental to their lives or health??? Mind your own damn business! Damn liberal!
It is detrimental to their lives — even their health, too. Read the links I linked to. They are the stories of homeschool alumni whose parents refused to give them birth certificates and Social Security numbers. Those decisions led to long-term difficulties in their children’s lives.
I just read that ‘Identifying abuse’ article. I find it a horrifyingly misinformative and a clearly biased attempt to create a false issue and a state of fear. There is no basis for the claim of Identity abuse and simply not ‘registering’ your children as you would a car or even a dog does not qualify in any form as abuse. I
Have you guys ever met an adult without an SSN? My father never got me an SSN as he thought it should be my decision whether or not I should have one. He never pushed me to get one or not to get one, he simply left it up to me. Im 35 years old, I have never applied for an SSN and I have no plans on doing so. I’ve held several jobs throughout my life and run have my own very successful business for the last 15 years.
If you want an unbiased review of what it’s like growing up without an SSN instead of speculating then read on.
I will start with some of the problems I’ve had. I’ve had trouble getting a bank account. I eventually did but it wasn’t the easiest thing I’ve ever done. I was refused renewal of my drivers license once. Getting jobs was a bit touch and go, I lost two jobs because their CPA advised they drop me with no legal basis for doing so. I’ve had lawyers line up to ask me to sue people telling me it would be a slam dunk. I’ve never sued anyone and don’t currently plan on it.
I’ve had no problems with passports, marriage, insurance, and healthcare related to my lack of SSN.
What it has provided me with is ingenuity and the ability to approach situations knowing there is more than one way to get it done. I have done heaps of research and know the laws regarding SSN and it’s relation to finances, discrimination and privacy.
As a human being I feel very creeped out about the fact the government numbers people. SSN’s were never intended to be used as a form of identification. It was simply an account number in relation to benefits. Up until very recently people didn’t get SSN’s when they were born. They applied for them when they wanted to be a part of the benefit system. Somewhere along the way this got pretty screwed up.
Would I stop my kids from getting an SSN? Nope, but it should be their decision.
I do have a birth certificate. Well actually it’s not a Birth Certificate it’s a ‘Certificate of live birth’. It’s different somehow and one can not stand in for the other. I don’t fully understand it completely but I’ve read gov paperwork saying one is valid for certain things while the other is not. Anyway I’ve never had an issue using it. The thing is there is a process for getting a birth certificate even if you’ve never had one.
I find it crazy that people would think it’s a form of abuse to not register your child with the state. It’s just ludicrous and shows how some people think the state should hold more sway over decisions regarding your family than the family themselves.. I find this disheartening and disturbing. If the state had it it’s way homeschooling would be illegal everywhere…
I don’t need to speculate on what it’s like to grow up without both your SSN and birth certificate. I have many friends who did not have them, and their stories are part of the articles I linked to. Their stories are as real as yours. I’m glad you didn’t feel you had to struggle much in your life because of a lack of documentation, but they did struggle, especially because many of them didn’t even have a certificate of live birth. Consider yourself privileged for not having to fight your parents for that.
Wow, it’s scary reading these comments by R.L. Stollar and crew.
1) If it’s difficult for children to survive later in life if they weren’t registered with the government at birth, that is 100% because the government itself makes it difficult. It is the government itself who is harming these people and making it difficult for them, not their parents. Blame the government.
2) Avoiding all possible future difficulty in the lives of their children is not the job of a responsible parent. No only is that impossible, but it’s undesirable as well. Facing difficulty is an integral part of growing up, learning how to cope and how to think. There are more than enough spoiled children who have never faced any difficulty themselves because their parents babied them for their entire lives, and these off-the-grid children are probable, in my opinion, to grow up much more able, competent, and intelligent. Let’s not pretend that they’re being abused for being forced to learn how to think.
It’s astounding the utter totalitarian mentality on display here. People like R.L. Stollar think they ought to have the right to tell others how to raise their children and want to use a the police state government to force their own values on everyone else.
Here’s an analogy for their “argument”:
Parents who don’t sell their children into slavery at birth are irresponsible because slave masters will make it harder for unowned adults to survive in the world and won’t take care of them as they would the ones that they owned. Without the benevolence of the slave masters, their children will have difficult lives and have to learn to fend for themselves. Oh, the humanity!
Think it’s hyperbole to compare this to slavery? It’s not. If you can’t raise your own children without the government’s permission or your neighbors’ permission you already are a slave. And in this view, R.L. Stollar’s role is one of those slaves who reports violations and plans to try to escape to the master. He doesn’t get any special treatment for it, but he gets to feel good about himself, feeling that he, too, has a modicum of power over the other slaves.
R.L. Stollar, why can’t you mind your own business? Why don’t you have and focus on your own children if you think you know how to be the best parent, instead of trying to tell — no, force and control — how others raise theirs?
As you’ve told us, it’s already quite difficult for children to survive without official documentation. Why not fight to make it easier, instead of fight to make it harder?
It’s already difficult enough for parents to raise their children off the grid and out of the prying eyes and hands of the government. The few who do so should be praised for resisting oppression. Why are you fighting to make it even more difficult?
Why are you fighting to promote the theft of any loving parents’ children based on minor bureaucratic issues? Why are you fighting to promote the theft of any parents’ children whatsoever?
R.L. Stollar, you sound like a coward and a fool.
You make very convincing points! Thanks for sharing.
Detrimental? Or just a different choice?
Long-term difficulties in their children’s lives… CAUSED BY THE GOVERNMENT. If the government mandated 2-pound nose rings, and fined people who didn’t have them, would you meekly comply? Or call “bullshit”? Oh wait. I can see by your nose ring what your answer would be.
Detrimental.
Those kids will care if they ever want to get a job, or a driver’s license, or a passport, or have any kind of lives independent of their parents.
Here’s one recent example of a young woman who went through this:
http://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2015/02/12/alecia-pennington-wants-to-obtain-her-legal-documentation-is-spiritual-tough-love-preventing-lisa-and-james-pennington-from-complying/
Sorry but your wrong. My mothers birth was never registered. She has a licence, and went to school with out it. And my mother is a very indpendant woman.
Dear m,
Then your mother is one of the lucky ones. What about Alecia Pennington, and the homeschool alumni whose stories Ryan has linked to? Do they not matter to you? Or do you think that they’re lying?
“Now Children, by not ever getting a Social Security Number you will never have to pay taxes; you will never have to pay any part of $18 Trillion of U.S. Debt and best of all you will never be tracked or spied on as you will be “Off-the-Grid” !!!
Isn’t this what the Government is worried about ? People being not under surveillance ? People being able to skirt slavedom ?
Sorry, I did not have a Social Security Number until I was 16 years old and yes, I did have a birth certificate but, it was my choice to get a SSN. Now you can get an infant a Social Security Number – only a moron would do that to a new born.
“Isn’t this what the Government is worried about ? People being not under surveillance ? People being able to skirt slavedom ?”
Are you really so paranoid that you sit in your tin foil hat thinking that the government “stole” these 10 kids because they were “escaping slavedom”? TEN? TEN CHILDREN? Oh, man! That’s an army! I can see why the government would be so worried about these TEN small CHILDREN. Clearly that are set out for world domination. Idiot.
So the kids have a little bit of difficulty in their adult life without having ss or birth certificate….
When they become adults they can do what needs to be done and get a ss and bc if they choose, but as it stands right now there is no abuse that they have been charged with.
You evidently do not understand how difficult it is to obtain those documents if you have none with which to start. It can take months to years. And if your parents are unwilling to cooperate, it can be impossible.
A quote from our laws regarding Social Security number usage:
Section 7 of the Privacy Act (found at 5 U.S.C. § 552a note (Disclosure of Social Security Number)) provides that:
“It shall be unlawful for any Federal, State or local government agency to deny to any individual any right, benefit, or privilege provided by law because of such individual’s refusal to disclose his social security account number.” Sec. 7(a)(1).
I totally agree. I would love to live like that. No cell phones no technology just raising our children.
They have a Facebook page, a website, a GoFundMe, multiple cars — they have phones and technology, but have to steal water.
Sorry, this is reposted. You would like to live like this?
http://www.wave3.com/slideshow?widgetid=157540&slideshowimageid=1
*waves* My husband and I grew up without documentation. We both got SS# as adults, and he had to get a birth certificate too. It was a battle that took YEARS. It was not easy and all those crazy sovereign citizens who say otherwise are lying or living in an alternate reality. We finally, in our 30’s, have completed the fight to be citizens in our own freakin’ country. We fought poverty, unable to get jobs, unable to support our family, among other things. Stuck here, unable to travel. It sucks. It all sucked. Anyone who tells you it’s the ideal life is a liar or insane, or both. And regardless of people legitimately choose that for themselves, they DO NOT have a right to choose that for another person. I deserved to have an identity in the country in which I was born. We did not deserve the decade of fighting that we just went through just to prove we’re legit Americans because our parents had some crazy ideals that affected not their lives, but OURS. No one should be able to make a decision like that for another human being. NO ONE.
You know, I am genuinely curious as to how all of these people (saying NOT having SSN and BC’s is a simple inconvenience for the kids in their adult life) feel about undocumented illegal’s in the US. I mean, I realize it’s a HUGE can of worms that everyone has an opinion on, but seriously, if you feel like LEGAL residents shouldn’t have to be legally documented using SSN or BC, how do you feel about illegals not being documented. Should they be documented or sent packing if they get caught.
Sounds fine by me! Good enough for our ancestors, good enough for us. Or are we too good to allow our children to play with real things that they might get a scratch on now?
Right, let’s all stop cleaning up our properties. Tetanus and staph infections: Good enough for our ancestors, good enough for us.
In fact, maybe someone should package and market broken glass and rusty nails, and sell them at Toys R Us. Kinda like this (apologies for the poor video quality):
P.S. Quiet, is your real name Irwin Mainway, by any chance? 😉
Or, are you just a Grumpy Old Man?
Note to Ryan et al: Let me know if I’m being too flippant. I understand it’s a serious issue, with a lot of heartache and confusion for the family (especially the kids). But UnusuallyQuiet’s way of saying things just reminded me too much of my favourite SNL skits. Couldn’t pass it up.
Flippancy doesn’t violate our comment policy. You’re fine. 🙂
(If you’re ever worried, here’s the policy: https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/forum/)
Tetanus really……
Your opinion on this case is lacking an actual crime done by these parents to their children.
Your going on and on about things that could happen, but as of now hasn’t.
And even if everyone of the children were to step on a nail and get tetanus, unless the parents intentionally withheld treatment and the children were harmed because of it, there’s still no crime.
As far as tetanus is concerned the only time anyone needs to be worried is if they have a puncture wound that does not bleed. And if this happens, squeeze the wound and make it bleed, the reason for this is because the tetanus virus cannot live in an oxygenated environment then apply peroxide and keep it cleaned.
You’re very mistaken about how people can become infected with tetanus.
Any deep puncture can become infected with tetanus, as can burns, torn flesh, animal bites and scratches, or other wounds contaminated with human and animal feces or saliva. The bacteria Clostridium tetani can be found almost everywhere in the natural environment — spores lurk in soil, dust, and in animal intestines and feces. If this bacteria finds its way into the body through a puncture, a scratch, or any other kind of wound, the bacteria can produce a toxin that can spread systemically and interfere with the central nervous system, producing muscle stiffness, rigidity, or spasms.
I have read thier story as well as yours. I am sorry but I have to side with the family. First let’s look at the legal issue…CPS can not enter ones home with out consent or a warrant, nor can police. Secondly people back in the day lived much the way this family chooses. Many people are coming to the conclusion that that homeschooling, andfor going off the grid is better for thier famly. Many neighbors have come forward in support of this family. I would have to say while you do have a few valid points, it seems you may be reaching a little. Now I can tell by the comments most of you will disagree, and that is your right, be careful how you aproach me. You come off hatefull and assy, so will I. This topic can be debated by adults with out acting that way.
I actually thought the blog had a pretty respectful tone. “People back in the day” (you can be very vague) had a higher mortality rate and lower education level. As I’m pro-life, I prefer mothers and babes/(fetuses if you prefer) to survive the birth process. 100 years ago, no one had to study the Cold War in history class or know who Al-Quida was for politics. The US wasn’t trying to compete with other nations academically either, back then we let European nations lead us and just accepted it. I would highly encourage you to read Nation at Risk sometime; we are 21st century Americans and not “people back in the day”.
Have any of their children died? Last time I checked, people should be prosecuted for real crimes not “increasing risk to their children by some indeterminate amount.” Maybe you should be jailed if you ever put your children in a car (traffic fatalities are the leading cause of death for children).
I am pro-life too, but thinking the state should use their guns to tell people how to raise their children is very anti-life. It is fascism.
I never said the blog had a bad tone. I was speaking to anyone who decided to comment on my post. There is nothing wrong with the way this Family has decided to live. It worked for my ancestors as well as yours. Mortality rate has nothing to do with this. As for education in the USA, it is extreamly lacking, to say the least. So they have a one room house, big whoop. The neighbors say the kids are happy and healty. The problem is it was..the search and removal of children was done unlawfully. Whether we agree or agree to disagree on the subject at hand, this family is being persecuted for the way they choose to live. Just like the Puritans, Indians, and a whole bunch of others as well. Plain and simple.
Hey m.,
You’re definitely welcome to disagree. I honestly didn’t include much in this post, though, so I can understand if this post feel insufficient. I’d suggest you read Kathryn Brightbill’s post; her post includes many more details. You can view it here: http://kathrynbrightbill.com/post/118481565656/here-are-7-surprising-things-you-need-to-know
Thanks for the comment!
Hi, since I can’t comment on M. I thought I would here. Hope it’s ok RL.
M. you think it’s unlawful the search and removel? What about the father sending a small child after a gun? Didn’t that along make it the right thing to do? Had there been an accidental shooting involving the child or a sibling then these people who feel so sorry for the child abusers would be seeing the story differenly. Children plaing happil the neigbors say, well you know what? abused kids do laugh and play.
Many neighbors have also come forward and said they’re awful, filthy, and scary. Especially the neighbor whose property was trespassed upon, who was stolen from and threatened when he caught this “nice family man” at it (and he brought his kid to help!) Those actions ARE crimes. Why is everybody just glossing that bit over? If you’re so sufficient at Livin’ Off The Land why are you stealing from people who paid for their plumbing?
If these kids had been removed illegally- they’d have them back by now. The judge is presiding over this case and you don’t know all the facts (neither do I).
I wonder how Abe Lincoln grew up in a ONE ROOM CABIN without violating Government Law. Then the Bum became President of the United States !!!! What is very, very, sad as we have seen this kind of Government OVER REACH !!!; WACO and RUBY RIDGE COME TO MIND.
My Heart Goes out to the Naugler Family and I will support these people the best I can. My Heart also goes out to the family of the Kentucky Deputy Sheriff that was assassinated on a Kentucky Country Road a few years back where they never caught the cop killer. Is it not obvious that small town politics can go way bad real fast by people who violate other people’s constitutional rights !!!!
I can assure you this case will be settled out of court for $15 Million I just hope the Naugler’s start a foundation with all that money to help others who want to just be left alone and live a very simple life. Like not paying taxes; not putting the federal debt ball and chain on their children by not getting them branded with a Social Security Number !!!
Because life back in 1830 was so idyllic. Death from pneumonia like his mother’s must be just the ticket to a presidential seat. I guess in order to really allow my kids the “simple” life of deprivation, danger, and exposure to all the elements, I should move them to China and get them working in a clothing factory….
Conditions there should be similar to what these courageous people were trying to accomplish by keeping their children uneducated, unhealthy, and in constant danger!
You life being controlled; fair enough ! However, why should your way of thinking (Most Government Employees who need to justify their job) be the “New Norm” for everyone ?
People who are ruled are not free. People have Personal and Property Rights that must be respected or American Freedom & way of life is nothing but a Joke !!!
Actually, my life was controlled, for 20 years.
I was not allowed to leave the house unless my outfit met my father’s and brother’s standards: but at least we lived in a HOUSE.
I was not allowed to drive anywhere by myself even after I got my license over 2 years later than most American teens. But at least we had a driveway and a car.
I was not allowed to go to college or to further my education because of my gender. But at least I was taught how to read and given access to thousands of books over my lifetime.
People who are kept ignorant and out of society are called “yokels” and seen as non-functioning members of society. There is no freedom in having to take remedial classes in order to get a minimum wage entry level job. There is no freedom in having to scrape together hundreds of dollars in order to get your own identification after it was kept away from you… but again I had a birth certificate.
There is no freedom when you cannot be part of society in any way. There is only ostracization and loneliness, and a lot of wasted effort and energy to barely fit in.
Dont sit there in your mid-life crisis years and dream about an agrarian utopia without thinking long and hard on the consequences your fantasy will have on the well being and the futures of the “least of these.”
I am sure there are a lot of you so called “Go Along – Get Along Types” who wish they hadn’t got a worthless degree and $30,000 + student debt. I was like you to one time but, I just could not justify working so I could make a bank or landlord rich. So I quit my $60,000 a year job (1995) and got a $30,000 a year job and reduced my life to very simple terms where I got to keep all my money. That was 5 years ago and now I only work when I want to as I have no bills; no debt; do not have to pay income taxes.
The problem is not the fact that people are trying to keep their children “ignorant”. The problem is you types don’t think anyone should have a right to live a simple life. Simple life without government intrusion is Freedom. You want to be a slave to the U.S. Fractional Fiat Banker System; go ahead be my guest and enjoy the stress and debt.
Honey, if I could get a 30k a year job, I would definitely take it.
Your gross arrogance and plain ignorance about the economic mess that the Boomers have left for the Millennials is frankly hurtful. I am intelligent, dress well, present “normal” and I still cannot get a job for much more than $10/hour, which is HIGH wages in my city.
I would give my left leg to be making 30k a year, and the way you flippantly talk about a job making double that makes me want to scream. I will continue to be an “entry level” worker unless I get a bachelors degree. I got an Associates with no debt and it got me NOTHING. Not a promotion, not any acknowledgment, and definitely no better job prospects.
If I am a slave to anything it is the tidal-wave of trouble that the people of the previous generation left for those of us who come after. So while you are out trumpeting your anarchist utopia, I will be going to school and fighting vocally for the education, health, and well being of the next generation. These children deserve a house with 4 walls, a real education, some books to read, and some outside friends. Anything less is neglect, and I assure you they have had enough of that already.
If they get any money at all, I hope that the first thing they do with it is clean up their property. It’s fine if they don’t accept the help of sanitation workers (to avoid being beholden to the government), but then they’d better do the work themselves to keep their land and domicile in proper condition. For their children, if not for their own sakes.
Amazing how many people think they have the authority to tell someone else what they need to do.
Why not go spend half the amount of time you spend telling others how to parent and work on bettering your self and your family. And unless there is an actual crime committed by this mother and father, mind your own business
No matter your opinion of the Nauglers, or of their lifestyle, the police/authorities/CPS acted unlawfully in this instance. Private citizens have rights that are protected by due process of constitutional law, and that process was totally disregarded in this instance. Our forefathers did not write the Constitution and then say, “abide by this only if you agree with the citizen.”
As for the Nauglers lifestyle, it is the lifestyle that the human race thrived in for thousands, if not hundreds of thousands of years. The modern lifestyle is an anthropological aberration, at best.
I do not write this as a disconnected third party, either. At the present, I am unable to obtain a passport due to the fact that my birth was not an “institutional” birth, and thus my birth certificate is not sufficient proof of my identity. I count this as the fault of an overly controlling, “Nanny Nazi” government, not the fault of my parents. I was born in a barn, quite literally, and I birthed my own daughter in my bedroom, 20 miles from the nearest medical assistance. We are healthier and happier than the average safe, medicated, comfortably numb American, and I certainly don’t mind living without socialist government systems that resemble all too well the cult that I left.
No one THRIVED…life expectancy was 45 years, infant mortality was sky high and most mothers had died in child birth by the time they had the 10th kid.
People died of every disease imaginable because of lack of sanitation, something as simple as scratch could be a death sentence. Hundreds of thousands of people worldwide died of exposure to the elements each year whether it was heat stroke or frostbite.
It took 25,000 years for the human population to reach 1 million and less than 100 to reach the next million and only 4 generations from that to reach 7 billion….modernity is what kept billions of people from dying prematurely. So you are either for the survival of humans or you are not.
There was nothing good about the good ole days, romanticizing it is just silly.
Actually, there is little support for what you say here. I am not romanticizing anything. Historically, if you go back and look at history beyond the propaganda that the medical establishment has put out, you will find that our ancestors lived in vibrant health. Painless childbirth was commonplace, birth control methods so that they didn’t have ten children were well-known and followed diligently, and infant mortality was actually lower than it is today. There was no tooth decay, no infertility, no cancer, no heart disease, no diabetes, and life expectancy was much longer. A scratch would not have been a death sentence, because without our modern over-sanitization of everything, the human biome is capable of fighting off most infections without assistance–in addition, since super-bugs had not yet been created by hospital germicides, most bacterias would still have been easily combated by well-known cures, such as eating a little extra garlic. I know all of this to be true, not only through my study of true history, but also because my family and I live this way and thrive.
If humanity was as fragile as you put it, we would not have survived to be destroying ourselves in the present day and age. Humanity has thrived for thousands of years, without any intervention from doctors or medicines besides what is found in nature. Most of the deadliest diseases were non-existent until 100 years ago, and epidemics were very uncommon until humanity gave up country life and congregated in unnatural numbers in cities. Check my facts, if you so desire–they are heavily documented.
I’m with you. One of the comments talks about painless childbirth and how people didn’t die of things. He clearly hasn’t walked through an old cemetery lately and done the math on the headstones. Women dying in their twenties with headstones that read mother and child. Yep, things were better alright. Seriously, I’ve lived in older homes that were built before electricity and plumbing. All of them had four complete walls, a roof, and a solid floor. Most had fireplaces for heating in the winter and windows for cross breezes in the summer. And there were privy shafts and safe distances from the house and usually a supply of potable water or a way to get it. These folks are being ridiculous if they’re saying that the conditions these kids were living in would have been okay even 100 years ago.
Song of a River – No, you’re wrong. There most assuredly were epidemics more than 100 years ago. Smallpox was probably riding along with humanity around 10,000 years ago.
There is evidence of heart disease in mummies in Egypt and the Americas too.
Forty-four of 52 mummies had identifiable cardiovascular (CV) structures, and 20 of these had either definite atherosclerosis (defined as calcification within the wall of an identifiable artery, n = 12) or probable atherosclerosis (defined as calcifications along the expected course of an artery, n = 8). Calcifications were found in the aorta as well as the coronary, carotid, iliac, femoral, and peripheral leg arteries. The 20 mummies with definite or probable atherosclerosis were older at time of death (mean age 45.1 ± 9.2 years) than the mummies with CV tissue but no atherosclerosis (mean age 34.5 ± 11.8 years, p 2,000 years.
CT scans of 137 mummies showed evidence of atherosclerosis, or hardened arteries, in one third of those examined – including those from ancient people believed to have healthy lifestyles.
Atherosclerosis causes heart attacks and strokes. More than half of the mummies were from Egypt while the rest were from Peru, southwest America and the Aleutian islands in Alaska.
The mummies dated from about 3800 BC to 1900 AD.
You may want to read this article too.
Click to access GurvenKaplan2007pdr.pdf
Do you have any support for the claim that the police acted unlawfully? The complaint came from a neighbor who reported that the father asked the minor to retrieve a gun after the neighbor asked the father to get off his property and stop stealing water. It doesn’t sound believable that the agencies involved didn’t make sure the t’s were crossed and the i’s were dotted.
According to what I read, the police entered the property while the Nauglers were gone, without a warrant. That is illegal, to my understanding, at least in the state where I live. Perhaps laws are different there, but to my understanding, police need a warrant to enter any private property, even a car. Also, the mother stated during one interaction with the police that they could not speak to her children without a warrant; it seems that, a) being the freedom-loving type that she is, Mrs. Naugler has likely studied her rights in this area, and b) if the police had a warrant, they would have shown it.
It is not uncommon now for police to simply bust in, perform illegal searches, make arrests without cause or warrant, and then deal with the consequences later, because they know that the worst they will get is a few weeks paid vacation. Look around YouTube, and you will find all too many videos of cops carelessly violating rights, beating, shooting, and killing people, completely unprovoked. If it wasn’t that the police nation-wide have a solid record of unlawful actions, I wouldn’t be so quick to assume that they acted unlawfully.
They are running on a power trip, and they have no limits, no accountability, and no consequences, much like the “enforcement” in the cult that I left.
CPS and the police both entered the property and searched around with no one home. The police said they didn’t have a warrant, they most likely got these AFTER they had the encounter with the lady and she didn’t lay down and bow to their requests, There are people in Breck County that are very dishonest and do what they want in the name of the law.They are all buddy buddy behind closed doors kindda people. They held court hearings behind doors for years instead of out in the publics eye….WHY??? GUESS….. I have seen this first hand and have talked with officials from other counties that say….”I have never seen anything like it”…and are in disbelief. Also there are many here that are honest as the day is long. According to my knowledge of the law, once the lady asked for a lawyer, time should have been allowed for her to get one. All this started as was a complaint about the Dad , a complaint and over reaction that has damaged children for their lives. WHERE IS DR PHIL????. I have also read where there were several supporters at the courthouse today but WAVE3 reported there was none…also they reported the family lives under tarps, The Mom says they put those up outside their dwelling to allow for more shaded areas and areas for them to have more room. The pictures look very clean and well organized. The kids look healthy and happy. Now there is a 19 year old from another state who shows up today saying he was abused by the Dad 15 years ago…He hadn’t seen the Dad for 15 years, why show up now? Why didnt they just remove the Dad and leave the Mom and kids alone….this is usually what happens. Most of the time CPS doesn’t want to take the kids. This is a real strange case. Anxious to see what happens. The poor kids, they are the ones made to suffer now.
Also, the rubble and nails were from them working on their home.But whatever you can say to make it sound as bad as it can be????
Either someone turned on the Fringe Whacko signal or there’s a lot of people with a Google alert set for this family. Good grief.
It’s even crazier over at Kathryn’s blog. Anyone who suggests that these parents might be in any way negligent towards the kids gets pounced on, and labeled as “commie” or “Nazi”. Unreal.
I think the label fits perfectly.
I read the other article as suggested. I still stand behind my comments. Actually after reading the other article I found myself even more in support for this family. Accusing a man for being a criminal for misdemeanor charges, has a typed up complaint on no letterhead, would you not be destraught if your children wete ripped from you, and who has never threatened someone before. I find the suggested article to be severely over reaching and lacking substantial evidence. At times it sounded as if the author was attempting to slander this family by any means necessary. Thank you for the suggestion, though.
I agree. After reading her article of “7 reasons” and listening to the audio I think the family was in the right. The mother seems to know her rights (and I see those didn’t seem to matter to the “law” enforcers) and there is a right way to go about investigating the accusations. All they did was use force because she pointed out they did not have the right to just take HER children.
Yes, parents do have rights, and if you listen to the audio, you will notice that the officer was very patient and respectful to Mz Naugler. However, children have rights too — rights to shelter, sanitary living conditions, education, identity, health care, and freedom from violence. Some parents provide these things for there children, others do not. As a society, we have the responsibility to watch out for those who may be oppressed, especially people, like children, who are not able to care for or defend themselves. That’s why we hire people, like these officers, to do just that. If the Nauglers truly have nothing to hide, then allowing their children to converse with those who are there to watch out for them would be an easy way to prove it.
In response to Jessa’s response…
Jessa, You’re obviously a very well meaning individual who loves helping people. I admire your concern for the less fortunate but I believe your opinions about law enforcement and the state in general assumes that they are just like you and thus you are being naive. First realize that police are allowed to lie to you in order to get probable cause and ultimately a conviction. Any cop will not only admit this but they love bragging about it. And in fact thats exactly what we heard this Sheriff do. In the audio recording when the officer finally leaves he tells the mother that they are leaving and not taking the children but not more than 20 minutes later he goes back on his word and makes the arrest. He is also not being “respectful” as he refused to leave private property when asked, kidnapped children without a warrant or court order thus making it kid napping and then slamming the pregnant mother belly first into the hood of a vehicle before arresting her on trumped up charges. Just wait and see, these charges will be thrown out confirming them to be trumped up. Whats more is he failed to uphold the rights of everyone including the children. If you will recall first the Sheriff says he just wants to see the boys. Then after some fishing and dialog he them want to speak to them. Ultimately the 2 boys were both asked if they would like to speak to the officer and they both declined. Nobody forced them to decline, it was their choice. Additionally the officer was not being “patient” either, he was instead fishing for information, anything to give him probable cause to do what he went there to do and make no mistake, they went there to take those children and take them they did. Not all police are bad but to assume they are all your friend acting in your best interest is not wise. Yes the police do work for is and take oaths to protect and defend the constitution but consider that they also work directly for the state and will always keep the states best interest at hand also. The police are human just like everyone else and are subject to abusing their power. This hunan nature is precisely why we have a Bill of Rights and it would be very foolish to demonize anyone for practicing any of these rights when confronted by tge state and in fact if the Police had nothing to hide they would not be threatened by anyone practicing said rights.
I had the same experience with this “article”. Anyone who is swayed away from supporting this family by reading this article has absolutely no objectivity whatsoever. The author is totally grasping at straws here and never once addresses the actual issue at hand which is unlawful search and siezure without a warrant. I have no dog in this fight but this is nothing more than a non objective hit piece against the family.
I do have one question for the author. Have you ever overdrafted your bank account?
You shouldn’t be “swayed” by this article. I’d be uncomfortable if you were, as I don’t present any evidence in it. It was originally two paragraphs long and simply warned people to exercise caution because of other developing information. If you’d like to butt heads directly with countering info, you can do so at Kathryn’s article here:
http://kathrynbrightbill.com/post/118481565656/here-are-7-surprising-things-you-need-to-know
That article actually has evidence.
When you consider what our Government has become in this era of “its okay to use drones on American Citizens – OVER THERE” without a trial or court of their peers before they and their LOVE ONE’S are wiped from the face of this earth, we must return to the rule of law ! and bring all Government Employees up on charges for violating peoples rights !! Even more so is if we do not change this climate of abuse of power there will be a revolution in this country and not by U.S. Citizens either !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Government needs to get out of our lives, hince, NSA SPYING ON EVERY PHONE CALL IN AMERICA ! You wonder how people are setup and brought down for speaking up !! Your cellphone is a spy tool and a tracking device of your every word and location.
BE AFRAID, BE VERY AFRAID, EVERYTHING IS A CONSPIRACY!!! Oooooaaaa!!! (*ghost sounds*)
jeez, you guys would crack me up if I didnt know how seriously you mean all this.
Most of us have never threatened anyone before, let alone trespass onto their land in order to steal their property and take our kids and with us and send a child to get a gun in order to threaten the landowner that we were stealing from. Yeah, the vast majority of us would never do that.
So… How long have you known Nicole and Joe? 3 days?
Allegations. –If I made a complaint ‘for the record’ it would only be an allegation. Not YET a substantiated allegation. In fact not even considered a criminal charge of any kind until an allegation is established having been substantiated first. An allegation is not means for unlawful seizures without due justice. Probable cause, is ‘likely’ or ‘probably’… yet not even fact. For an allegation to be substantiated, it must offer a ‘fair and reasonable’ investigation. Prior. (Before the removal of the children!!) Of which, very plainly: Department of Human Services CPS DOES NOT OFFER ‘fair and reasonable’ investigations. Your children are simply considered wards of the state within their ‘legal’ reach to remove them from the parents however they want to, embellishing, forging and falsifying documents in the meantime to justify their means; then to be used against you. Their documents become a golden egg of truth (against the whole truth) if it is written by a professional. A Gestapo that answers to no one. Not even to the Supreme Court of the State.
As long as they have your children hidden in their system… You will do anything to get them back spending money that you don’t have (you must go into serious financial debt on legal counsel (and that is only if the family can afford to go into debt) JUST TO GET YOUR KIDS BACK, TO DEFEND YOURSELF AND YOUR PARENTAL RIGHTS. Fighting with your life for the life of your child! Only, If you are fortunate to have an attorney who knows what he’s doing.
If on a good note in the end: Your children will have been terribly traumatized emotionally and spiritually. You end up broke or bankrupt (because the state has unlimited amounts of tax payers money at their disposal to persecute you). And your family completely terrorized because of a small number of corrupt Social Workers who are doing their job under the ‘color of law’ using malfeasance, non-feasance, and misfeasance with judicial sanctions to suit their own means. Not lawfully abiding by their own written policy protocol that governs their job description outlined within their agency. All without personal consequence or recourse. Able to do it again to yet another family.
R.L. Stollar your opinions are of little matter. You are not these people. You do not have factual information… only biased perception and biased thoughts based on your own triggers and fears, others opinions, biased reports and photos. None of which are factual resources. You should be ashamed of yourself that you are being used to condemn a family that you are persecuting by your personal biases. Don’t impose them to be used as ‘gossip’ to suit your agenda of brilliant ‘un-investigated, un-factual, un-substantiated journalism’ for a cause. (For whose cause?) It’s called SLANDER. I appreciate your zealousness in fighting for your biases, but WHAT IF YOU ARE WRONG? Unless you live and breath the life of these parents or children, your perceptions are inappropriate. AND your undue persecution of this family will be on your hands to answer for. Only God knows the hearts of these parents.
R.L. Stollar I would like for you to show me the ‘factual truth’ behind your ‘allegations of perception’ regarding this family.
You are a free man because you were given constitutional rights to be one. AS AMERICANS we all have been given constitutional rights to live our lives as FREE citizens, unless proven guilty. To live our lives as we see fit. Bottom line, you need to back up and think about what would happen if someone made a false ‘allegation’ against you because they think (by their own biases) that you are not a good parent. A simple allegation intended to rip your kids away from your protecting arms, hiding them away until you were proven innocent of an accusation that was untrue? Only to get your children back emotionally terrorized (for the parents to manage for years to come). Emotional terrorism inflicted and imposed on our children by “professionals.” Because of an allegation? And it’s legal? Rubbish. It should be a punishable crime against them all, if the parents are found innocent with equal protection. And the family to be financially awarded by the accuser AND enforcers for their legal expenses, harassment and slander.
Children have rights to be raised safely and securely as their parents see fit, without government interference. “Homeschooling”, “off the grid”, “one room homes”, “home birth”, “no s.s.n.”, ….. are controversial topics that stir up hysteria with the general masses. So of course you will get ‘followers’ and ‘likes’. At least from half of the population, but it doesn’t make you right. –And NONE of these topics are cause for your personal freedoms to be taken away without due justice.
All of these topics have everything to do with an individual’s Constitutional right as “We the People”.
Amendment XIV of our Constitution reads:
Section 1.
All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
*Please stop persecuting this family with your personal biases. YOU DO NOT KNOW the entire whole truth. The next family that could be persecuted by a ‘simple un-substantiated allegation’, could be your own. You have rights. Allow other citizens to have them as well. Pray that God reveal the whole truth and that the whole truth stay intact without maligning the family’s integrity. These children are suffering terribly, as their parents are – who love them.
Food for thought: Should a man or a woman who has physically, emotionally, or financially have abandoned their biological child from all the responsibilities due them: be treated unlawfully without due justice?
True father’s and mother’s do not abandon their children… they raise them whether poor or otherwise as their personal freedoms provide.
Slanderously, falsely accusing:
is defined by the Greek word
DIABOLIS
1228 diábolos (from 1225 /diabállō, “to slander, accuse, defame”) – properly, a slanderer; a false accuser; unjustly criticizing to hurt (malign) and condemn to sever a relationship.
1228 (diábolos) is the root of the English word, “Devil” (see also Webster’s Dictionary).
Leviticus 19:11-18 Do not pervert justice, do not show partiality to the poor, or favoritism to the great but judge your neighbor fairly (19:15) Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as yourself, I AM the LORD. (19:18)
As the article already stated, Kathryn provides a synopsis of the situation here: http://kathrynbrightbill.com/post/118481565656/here-are-7-surprising-things-you-need-to-know
I’ve never been able to articulate my views very well, you just nailed it!!
She’s awesome at grooming dogs, just when her business is starting to pick up to make things better for them, this happens. They own their own land, and were wanting to build on it. I’m not wanting to add to the defamation posted on here that will be addressed later, I’m sure. I’ll just post her dog grooming business facebook page, so it can help a family trying to make it rather than destroying them. The worst of the posters are probably calling themselves Christians, you know those who aren’t suppose to judge or they’ll be judged, help your fellow man and all that good stuff. https://www.facebook.com/GroomerNicole?pnref=lhc
If this were a black family, no one would say a word.
If it were a black family, the father would be tossed in jail after the first run in with the neighbor (as a violent, threatening criminal), and most of these “supporters” would be screaming about an absentee father and the family raising future welfare recipients. This is what privilege looks like for the white poor – the presumption of innocence, and a “back to the land” image. I don’t begrudge the family these assumptions. I just wish we were all this understanding with every family.
*like*
Spot on!
For those that think that “they know better for these children” and that the state has a right to intervene, let me remind you of something said a bit more than a half a century ago that is so applicable here:
First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
The circumstances were far different, the outcome far more horrendous, but the concept is the same.
And that is… If you fail to speak up for others, or if you are “OK” with what happened because it hasn’t happened to your family for one reason of another, or perhaps you’re just the self-righteous type that loves to get into other people’s business and will latch onto any possible pretense to do so, regardless, if the time were to come when the state saw to it that something in your family is unacceptable, then who will bother to speak up for you?
What happens when the state decides that your parenting is unacceptable? Harm to these children, and a lifestyle that you do not agree with are NOT the same thing.
Also, given the ultra narcissistic, self-absorbed, me-centered nature of this latest generation (complete with functional illiteracy, rising teen pregnancies, explosive violence and drug-use rates, and declining civility), I would say that my generation and the one before it (30-50) are the WORST parental generation this nation has ever seen. Given that, there is some serious “pot-kettle-black” syndrome going on here. Poor kids that are loved, fed well, taught and mentored, and when necessary, disciplined, will produce far superior adult citizens than the, “here, have an Xbox and this trendy gizmo because all your friends have one”, while following someone else’s prescription for raising children, most likely along the lines of the disastrous formula perpetrated upon the public by the likes of Dr. Spock and company.
People in glass houses….
” rising teen pregnancies”
The teen pregnancy and birth rate is dropping and in fact, it’s FAR lower than it was in the 1950’s.
Today, teen pregnancy, birth and abortion rates have reached historic lows. What is more, teen pregnancy rates have fallen in all 50 states and among all racial and ethnic groups.
The teen birth rate reached it’s highest point in 1957 (96.3 per 1000 teenaged women).
The number of children born to women aged 15-19 was 367,652 in 2010, a ten percent decline from 2009 (409,802) and the fewest reported in more than 60 years (322,380 in 1946).
Thanks for the worthless information, we do have due process in this country, oh….. if your arrested you must be guilty. God help the ignorant!
You’re welcome! Thanks for stopping by.
The ONLY concern of outsiders is this: are the children being abused by the parents? Harm, as in beaten, burned, tortured, starved, sexually abused, etc. You know, the kind of stuff that is more common in state run foster homes than in the general public.
Thanks for the comment, Andy! You might want to double-check your definitions of child abuse, though. They are slightly broader than what you mentioned: https://www.childwelfare.gov/topics/can/defining/.
“Abuse” can be defined as whatever we want it to be. The meaning of any word in the English language is completely arbitrary, but, as a vague and abstract concept, “abuse” is much more susceptible to being slyly changed and redefined.
That sly redefinition over time is exactly what we’re seeing. Nowadays, things like spanking are considered child abuse. Raising them in an environment that’s not sufficiently sterile or pristine may be abuse. Not vaccinating them or not putting them through school could be called child abuse in the future.
One shouldn’t give too much credibility to a charge of “abuse” without knowing in more concrete terms what happened. Did the “sexual abuse” constitute raping a girl or merely touching her arm?
The term “abuse” has a strong negative connotation and basically exists for the sole sake of allowing us to steal others’ children in good conscience. Just saying.
Moral totalitarians, who want to force their values on the rest of us and tell us how we can or cannot raise our children, are always fighting to get the term redefined and revised to cover more and more things.
Sure, you can define “abuse” however you want. Have at it and be creative!
But that doesn’t change the legal definitions. And no, spanking is not legally defined as abuse in the United States.
As I said, lobbyists and government panels change the legal definition, not me personally.
The legal definition of “child abuse” is the opposite of the amount of freedom parents have in raising their own children.
The definition is guided by the Child Abuse Prevention and Treatment Act, or CAPTA. And the legal definition hasn’t changed much. You can view the history here: https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs/about.pdf.
Not sure what your point is. Are you contesting anything that I said?
According to the document you linked:
CAPTA has only existed since 1974. Since 1974, it was revised in 1978, 1989, 1990, 1992, 1993, 1994, 1996, 2003, and 2010. Has it changed “much”? That’s subjective. I don’t know the scope of each of its revisions. The point is that the government can revise it whenever it pleases and the larger the scope of the term “child abuse”, the less freedom parents are given to raise their children how they want to.
There is one thing that must be asked for and needs to be cleared up.
Where is the warrant?
Because without that, and regardless of the Naugler’s lifestyle … nothing that was done was legal…
Nothing.
That’s not necessarily the case. There are numerous instances where a warrant is not required: http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/search-warrant-basics-29742.html.
Whether this instance is one of those situations remains to be seen. We don’t have enough information yet to make a judgment in either direction.
RL Stollar. You keep hiding behind a veneer of legalism like it’s the catch-all, end-all of your arguments. Would you please stop? It’s fallacious as hell and doesn’t add anything to the discussion.
That’s not fallacious. Steve said, “Because without that, and regardless of the Naugler’s lifestyle … nothing that was done was legal…” And I pointed out that it might still be legal. Thanks for the suggestion, though!
R. L., Read the 4th ammendment and deal with it. We live in a nation founded on the rule of of law and the constitution IS the law, PERIOD.
And I quote the 4th ammendment of the Constitution of the United States of America…
“The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[2]”
If you listen to the audio recordings there were no extenuating circumstances which would have given the Sheriff “reason” for immediate search, seizure or arrest. Thus CPS will need to otherwise submit probable cause to a judge to issue a warrant. THAT IS THE LAW! If you find this too inconvenient or offensive I cannot help you. But trust me when I say it’s for your own good as well as your fellow neighbors.
I have read it, thanks. We grew up reading the Constitution regularly while being homeschooled. But thanks for the reading suggestion!
What leads me to question your credibility, R.L. Stollar, and that of Kathryn Brightbill, is her comparison of this situation to Ruby Ridge, and your support of her comparison.
She states this: “It’s quite disturbing and the exchange raises the specter of another Ruby Ridge scenario. That’s not to say that the Nauglers would start a fire fight that involved their children,”
Both of you need to research who, what, when, where and how Ruby Ridge came to be. The Weaver family did not “start” anything at Ruby Ridge, but the FBI certainly did. In fact, if any research had been done prior to making a flippant comparison to justify the State taking the children from the parents in the Naugler case, you and Kathryn would both discover that Randy Weaver won four million in court after the FBI shot his child, and snipered his wife (who was holding their baby in her arms). Why, they blew her head right off. I’m sure Randy Weaver would rather have his wife and child in lieu of four million dollars. And to top it all off, Weaver was never charged or convicted with a crime. Do you know why the FBI went after the Weaver’s in the first place? Look it up.
In addition, I personally find Kathryn’s “work” to be an attack or hit piece and nothing more. If, as you state, you don’t know anything, perhaps you shouldn’t be all so supportive of an ignorant person who doesn’t know enough, and is apparently unwilling to do the research, about Ruby Ridge to know her own statement of comparison is fallacy.
Personally I think Kathryn suffers from too much statism and not enough critical thinking since she only seems capable of skimming the surface of an issue such as Ruby Ridge, and bleating repeating what she’s been told by mainstream media.
I feel so sorry for you. And America. Perhaps you should acquaint yourselves with the Constitution, but I think it requires more than just a surface skim to understand what Freedom is and the responsibilities that lie therein.
I am all for waiting for the facts, but I don’t rely on mainstream media to give them to me.
I really appreciate the sorrow you feel for America and myself! It means a lot. Cheers!
I wouldn’t be surprised if the U.S. slipped something into legislation that made it legal for them to steal children (without a warrant). Screw what’s legal. Things are only legal because they favor those in power. Legality itself is not legal; it’s a tool of oppression. Legality ought to be ignored aside from considering the consequences of one’s actions.
Pingback: Christian Patriarchy, Homeschooling, Disability and the Naugler Family of Kentucky | petroleuses
My family lives in Elizabethtown, KY and happens to know the Naugler family very well. They attended my families church and worried many of the church members with the looks of their children. This family also got caught numerous times stealing water from my parents water spicket. My mother was confused about the high water bills and worried they had a leak somewhere. Nope turns out the father was at their house filling up on water. How is that right for people who are so adamant on living off the grid to go and steal resources from people who are paying for those resources? Besides it’s quite alarming to think that the children only get water if stolen from residence.
My husband and I are all about self-sustainability and hope to one day have our own off the grid home but we will not obtain that lifestyle by stealing and fighting residence for their resources.
Plus we won’t raise our children in a twig “cabin” with shared sleeping facilities.
I mean gosh the lady has 10 kids and 1 on the way, poor kids have to share a bed with those 2. Gross.
HOW COME YOUR ARTICLE SHOWS UP FIRST IN THE SEARCH ENGINE WHEN YOU TYPE IN THE WORD NAUGLER FAMILY? Personally I think you are a piece of crap that is twisting the facts to make it look worse than it is, and you are in league with these organizations that took these kids. [Comment modified in accordance with Comment Policy #6: https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/forum/.%5D
What search engine are you using? We don’t appear anywhere on the first page of Bing…
Search engine algorithms usually place on the first page stories with the most amount of views and interactions. If our post is showing up on a first page, it is likely because our post has been viewed almost 100,000 times.
Also, if you would like to continue commenting on our blog, please review our Comment Policy here as your comments have violated that policy: https://homeschoolersanonymous.wordpress.com/forum/.
Joe Naugler is alleged to have threatened a neighbor with bodily harm while trying to coerce her into giving him access to water. If this is, in fact, true everything the sheriff did seems reasonable to me.
Here is a blog that Nicole Naugler wrote several years ago about Joe’s oldest son. In this blog she admits that CPS was called by Joe’s own family for abusing and neglect on his oldest child and that he was stripped of his parental rights. She is now claiming that this never happened. This story sounds just like the current one…Research these people before you give your money to them they are running a huge scam.
January 11, 2013
The Story of Alex
The story of Alex: from my point of view.
My senior year I began dating my husband. We had a long journey ahead, but we knew we were meant to be together. Its been a rough road at times… really rough.. This is the story of one of those really bumpy roads..
About a year after we got together we moved to Wisconsin to stay with his brother. That led to Joe and I breaking up for a few months and went our separate ways. Joe went back to New Hampshire and I went to Texas. Shortly after we reconciled, we were informed that a woman Joe had slept with during our separation was pregnant. She suspected Joe was the father. It was an incredible blow to both of us, in different ways of course. I had already suffered a miscarriage in the beginning of our relationship. It was not easy, but I had to make a decision. I decided to stay with him. In November 1995 Alex was born. A few months later Joe was asked to take a paternity test. Which really wasn’t needed. The boy was an almost exact replica of his dad. This of course was very trying for Joe and I and the years that followed were very hard. We lived in Texas, Alex in New Hampshire. Joe had traveled up at times to NH to visit Alex. He struggled with the notion of doing what was right, and being a husband and father to this family, and being with me, who he truly loved. It took me many years to understand this. It was a lot of emotional pain for both of us, for a long while. I can not imagine his struggle. This is his child. During this time, I suffered a second miscarriage It was the most devastating experience of my life to this day. Not only was I feeling the loss of the man I loved with all my heart, now I was dealing with the fact I may never carry a child. The doctors had chalked it up to endometreosis, and after my 2nd miscarriage, it was discovered I was also RH-.
It wasn’t till the fall of 1997 that I agreed to move to New Hampshire so Joe could have a relationship with Alex. Things were rough. Alex had a very bad home life and that was the only thing that gave me comfort in my decision. Alex NEEDED us. I admit I was extremely hurt and jealous, of her. Alex and I took to each other quite well. He filled a void I had. Several people would tell me stories of evil step moms, but I did not feel that way. My maternal instinct was very strong. He was my husbands* son. I was not the only one with jealousy issues. Alex’s mother began to make things difficult for us and into custody court we went. Visitations became a power struggle, the mother would not be home when we came, or not have Alex ready. We bought Alex everything he needed to be with us, so we no longer had to rely on her for his belongings.
*(we were not married till years later, but I refer to him as my husband because that is how I see him, then and now)
We spent 2 years in New Hampshire/Vermont. In that time we developed a great relationship with Alex and I was finally able to carry a child to term. I gave birth to Jacob in December 1998. Shortly after Jacobs birth, we decided to head back south where we had a stable income. We had planned to bring Alex, but the last moment, his mother opposed. Our goal was to get settled and go back to court. It didn’t take that long.. Within a month, she called and sent Alex on a plane to live with us.
Me, Alex and Joe
Alex and Jacob when Jacob was born. Urijah looks just like him
Jacob and Alex
Alex and Joe spent a lot of time traveling back and forth to visit Alex’s mom. It took a toll on our family. We now had a second child, another son. We finally decided, the summer before Alex was to start kindergarten that we were not going to do that anymore. So Alex and Joe stayed the summer with us. It was the last few weeks of summer when Joe’s mother called and begged for us to send Alex up there to see her at least. She even offered to pay the plane ticket. Joe agreed and sent Alex on a plane to New Hampshire. That was August 2001. We never saw him again…………
We got a call and Alex arrived safely and was having fun. Things were going good. Little did we know about the plot that was boiling. A few days later we got a phone call from their attorney. Joe’s uncle had petitioned for an emergency custody hearing… in New Hampshire at 2pm EST that day. Let me remind you that we were in Texas and the call came in at 10 am CST. this gave us 3 hrs to get Joe to the airport, on a plane and into the courtroom. The judge granted custody by default and Alex went to live with his great uncle and his wife.
We got notice of another custody hearing to finalize it all. But there was no way we could attend. The cost of travel and court fees was more than we could bear. Joe made several pleas to the courts but they went unheard. It didn’t matter. The judge had already made his decision. Joe’s appearance by phone call was just not enough. The State of New Hampshire took away Joe’s paternal rights, based on nothing more than hearsay.
So what was all this about you ask. Joe’s mother, brother, uncle, grandmother,cousin all got on the stand and told of horrible stories of abuse. All the ways Alex was mis-treated. Their testimony, some even quietly admitted to purgery years later, gave the State of New Hampshire all they needed to take away Joe’s parental rights.
Its only fair to note two things here. Prior to Alex leaving Texas, the state where he was in fact residing, Social Services interviewed both Joe and Alex based on an “anonymous” phone call they received. They had no findings and we received a letter stating their investigation was dismissed. New Hampshire how ever, never did conduct and investigation. Other than that interview no one ever came to the home after the allegations from NH surfaced. While that may be disturbing to you, what you may find more disturbing is this. We had two other children in the home. If Joe and I had been the people they described on the witness stand. Such abusive and vile people that they deemed fit to take Joe’s son from him then why would they put those other two children in jeopardy? Why was no one looking out for the welfare of those two little boys? Its simple.. Everyone one involved, from the family, to the lawyers, to the State itself, knew those children were not in danger.. They knew the allegations were false. If only I had known the law better.. If only I had had the gusto I do now…If only we had more money… I will spend forever saying…. If only..
Things started to look up, or so we thought. We were able to speak to Alex on his birthday and again at Christmas,. This of course was only to make us aware of all the material items this child now possessed. and to buy them a bit of time.
Joe and I had called and spoken to a few attorneys about the case but none would touch it with out a large retainer. Joe had began to slip into a depression and no longer allowed me to speak of the situation. He became a very angry man. Every so often I would try to make contact. I’d send certified letters which were returned. I’d call the State of NH and try to see what we could do. This usually would drive Joe into a deeper depression. I still made my bi annual calls but without Joe there was little I could do. It was a very trying time for me.. Joe was starting to become the man they accused him of.
I cant recall the dates or specifics, that is for Joe to tell, but one day he decided to give all his anger over to God. I do not know how, because I have not been able to. Not fully. I want to. I want to let go of it. I just have not been able to.
We also gave up the fight as we knew it.. We knew at this point there was no undoing what had been done and now it was our job to wait. For several years after that I continued to make my phone calls regarding Alex’s new living situation. It was not ideal and in fact, border lined the type of situation which would require the state to remove a child from custody. I find it quite ironic that they would not even investigate based on my phone calls as I did not actually see these “events”. This is the same type of “hearsay” they used to take him in the first place.
We have tried in recent years to make amends with the family. We have told them that it is not our intention to create division. We only want to be able to reestablish a relationship with Alex. That in the end they can still be the good guys. They cant hide him forever. This is their chance. He has 9 siblings here who know about him. Two that remember him. Its hardest on Jacob.. He was 3 when Alex was taken. For years I protected those involved. He knows the truth of it all. He is also patient. He knows he will see Alex again someday.
As for those involved, well they know Karma quite well. She has them on speed dial. I wont get into the nitty gritty because its not something I feel I need to disclose. I will say that my last phone conversation with the State of New Hampshire, they actually called me this time, I told them I am on record warning them for years. This is now on their head.
Alex turned 17 a few months go. We know the day will come when he wants to find dad. Even if its to “kick his ass” as some have put it. The truth never stays covered for long. My heart breaks for him.. To have a family who loves you so much and to not know they even exist or that they care so much about you. I am also saddened by the thought of the loss he will feel when he knows the people he cares about most lied to him for so long. I have seen a few recent photos I have been able to snag. He looks terribly sad. You can see the emptyness in his eyes. In 10 months he turns 18. I get anxious thinking about it. I hope he is able to find it in his heart to contact us. I wish he knew how much we love and miss him.
The irony in all of this, is that several years ago, the custodial uncle lost everything. His job, his home,… It was at this point, he went to the state to get welfare for Alex.. The state then began to come after us for support. Joe is required to pay money to the man who unlawfully legally stole his son. This sounds like something the mob would do. Kidnapping and ransom.
I have had this blog post in draft mode for 2 years. I have written and re-written it a gazillion times. I never had the courage to publish it. Fearful of indulging our most private matters, fearful of judgement. Fearful of putting my heart out there like this.. I still cry when I tell the story.
But I feel I had to. I feel I need to share my story. I hear so often about how innocent people have nothing to worry about. How if you just comply, things will be fine..
Don’t be so sure.
*All critical, negative, insulting comments for this post will not be approved from anonymous posters. If you wish to leave such a comment, please sign in to one of the accounts available.
Wait, he didn’t pay child support for his own son for years and thinks it’s unfair that he has to start paying at some point in time? What the hell is wrong with this guy?
You do understand they will want ALL the back support, don’t you?
Thank you Angie! Joe also threatened our family. I can’t go into detail because I have children but he also threatened my young children. We did report it and was told that if he comes on our property…(well you can figure it out) However no one wants that. He is sick and so is his wife. I just watched on wave 3 news and I encourage all the “Naugler Sympathizers” to do the same. The oldest son is here from up north and showed up for the hearing today. He told the National Media that his father ABUSED him!!! Another news outlet WLKY showed him as well and reported that he was thankful he was taken out of the home at the age of 4!!!! Chirp… Chirp…
Isn’t it odd how wherever the Nauglers go, relatives, neighbors, church members, states, police, CPS, all persecute them and cause trouble for absolutely no reason at all?
Pingback: Sheriff/CPS Kidnap 10 Children From Off-Grid Family | Free Kentucky
To make this perfectly clear, Child protective services broke the law in this case.
A CPS worker can take a child into custody without taking the case to court first in some cases. But the caseworker must get an Emergency Custody Order to remove the child if the caseworker believes (and the judge finds) that the child will be in immediate danger if the child is not immediately taken into custody.
“NO WARRANT or ORDER was approved by any JUDGE in this case.”
In criminal law, kidnapping is the unlawful taking away or transportation of a person against that person’s will, usually to hold the person unlawfully. “So no matter what the situation is, the state of Kentucky DID kidnap these 10 children.” Those who are supporting this blog and the CPS workers are supporting a kidnapping of 10 children.
The children are clearly clean, clothed, well fed, intelligent and happy.
To whomever reported this family, SHAME ON YOU. You are an accomplice in the kidnapping of these children. You have caused a family to be broken up. A mother is spending mother’s day without her children. Ten children are separated into four different places with total strangers. You have single handedly caused more detriment to those children than the parents ever did.
So it’s ok for a father to send a child after gun?
Jennifer- listen to the audio of Nicole Naugler and Sheriff Todd Pate. The Sheriff did have an emergency order to remove the children- signed by the Judge. What’s more- I keep reading about CPS. CPS did what they were told. They called the Nauglers after the incident with Joe threatening the neighbors. They set a time to come up to the compound to make sure the kids were ok. The Nauglers hid and CPS was forced to report that they had made a visit to the compound but no one was there. The day that Sheriff Pate removed the children- he was on the road in front of the house- not even on the property. So there was no trespassing on the part of the Sheriff or CPS in the first place.
Gee, Angie, I read the blog in your post and it seems these Naugle’s were placed at an unfair advantage by Alex’s mom and her family. You don’t see anything unfair there in how they were treated by the STATE of New Hampshire? Nothing at all. And no reason to have her fears justified now, in the current case. Perhaps thinking, reading, and comprehension are not your strong suits.
Nope, all you see is that Texas CPS was called (anonymously, I might add, although in your rush to condemn you might’ve missed that big word there) and that Texas could find nothing wrong (or did you miss that part, too, you know where the case was DISMISSED. LOOK THE DEFINITION UP.)
From what I read from Mrs. Naugle’s blog it appears the couple was railroaded. But I guess that’s ok, huh? As long as it’s a State doing the railroading?
You must really fear people who don’t think, walk, talk, act and believe like you.
My condolences.
Go to wave3news. They just reported and the entire news watching audience saw it!!! His oldest son is here at the court hearing today, and admitted on NATIONAL NEWS THAT HE WAS ABUSED BY HIS FATHER!!! I’m sure he testified behind closed doors to a judge as well. There are so many of us who have always suspected these kids were abused. They live in filth and someone has to help those children. I for one am thankful the good sheriff stepped in. Go search it out for yourself. WAVE3NEWS
Oh yes M.L. because The Naugler’s are always railroaded. Every state they go to they have run-ins with the law. Every church they go to, they get thrown out, all their neighbors are just horrible people who just don’t understand why they want to live and raise their kids in squaller, and they definitely got railroaded when that poor hardworking land-owner wouldn’t give them anymore water after he threatened him with a gun, and that poor 19 yr old boy who is the eldest son…Yep! he is railroading them too by stating he was mentally, physically, and SEXUALLY abused by his father at a young age! Actually my condolences are to you M.L. cause YOU just got railroaded by The Naugler’s….be sure to donate 🙂
Oh, QB. I didn’t realize the Nauglers have been railroaded in every state they’ve ever lived. Perhaps you have documentation for that? Or you’ve just been picking up and moving right in behind them every time they moved. How many states have they lived in, by the way? What about church? How many churches have they attended? Do you know, personally, or are you just repeating what you’ve read?
You know, brainwashing is wonderfully effective, especially when you start in on a kid aged four. That’s why the Feds start early. Why, there have been proven cases of false memories instilled in kids that young. Of course, we can’t consider that possibility, can we? Nooooo, we must hate because everyone else hates and anyone who doesn’t hate right along with us is worthy of our scorn and ridicule, which is really only masking our hate and barely. No, no one can ever rise above your blinders because you know all and see all and march lockstep with every other like-minded hater and anyone who even tries to rise above your narrowmindedness is wrong, wrong, wrong. Why? Because you say so. Hell, I bet your name’s in the Bible too as the ultimate authority since according to you, God has verily abdicated his throne and left you his job.
I have never said I side with the Nauglers or against the state. Or vice versa. I am merely waiting for more information and not from you, or the mainstream media, but perhaps the actual legal documents in the case, starting with the “warrant”.
Why must people hate? Who do you hate when you have no Nauglers to hate? Why must folk like you have anyone to hate? I meet people like you on the job all the time and they must always have a target for their hatred. Why? Why pack that festering hatred around? Do you know it takes ten times the energy to be negative as it does to be positive?
Again, my condolences.
I think CPS and the sheriff done absolutely the right thing here.The story i read not what media said what mother said was enough for me to side with the state Seems dads psycho and mom is the puppet.Hes a thief amd the kids are surely in immenant danger.Dont send Go Fund Me money unless you read and listen to this whack job.
Funny how everyone writing about them making money is making money every time someone goes on their sites. 🙂
Our non-profit organization and website are entirely volunteer-run; the only money we receive is through donations. We do not make money off page views. The ads you see on this site are WordPress’s, not ours.
If the Nauglers were adoptive parents they would have never been allowed to adopt in their current living conditions and if they had decided to live in these conditions after adoption they would have had their children removed from them. Children are not pets. They are not “belongings” like junk you prop up in your lean to. They are human beings. In the United States of America children are entitled to an education and parents are expected to provide a “reasonable” standard of care for their children. Foster parents must have a house, beds off the floor, proper food, running water and a toilet. Why should the Nauglers not be expected to provide at those bare essentials for their children? As well proper nutrition, clothing, and shelter. They are not being home schooled. We can assume none of the children can read. Why do the constitutional rights of The Nauglers to live like 17th century peasants supersede the rights of their children? We have progressed in society for a reason so that our children would survive childbirth and live without infectious diseases and have a chance to pursue an education and choose to live “freely.” There is nothing wrong with wanting to homestead but the Naglers are abusing the rights of their children. If The Nauglers want to live like animals that is their choice. But they cannot take their minor children down with them. How many children do they really have? Since we do not have SS cards or birth certificates they could have had children we do not know about? This is also an issue with extremists.
If the Nauglers choose to live “off the grid” in primitive Calcutta standards they should move to Calcutta. Or perhaps Mexico. I can assure you the government will not bother with them there. They can live “freely” in filth without toilets and or running water in the dirt without the horrors of the American government asking them to clean up their garbage and take care of their children properly.
My customers did not like her and I got tons of complaints about her work she was too rough with my dogs too, all in all it was not working and I was tired of all her radical beliefs
When I read the original article I felt like there was definitely more to the story. I was hoping you guys would publish something on the subject.
R.L. — This thread has turned into Conspiracy A-Go-Go, second only to the Conspiracy A-Go-Go knock-down-drag-out in the comment thread of Kathryn’s Summary. (And in that one, I keep expecting someone to invoke Deros shining Telaug Rays up from inside the Hollow Earth, Shape-Shifting Cannibal Lizard Men from Draco, or Communist Gangster Computer Gods on the Dark Side of the Moon Parroting Puppet Gangster Assassins with Frankenstein Earphone Radio Controls.)
DID WE GO CRAZY OR DID EVERYBODY ELSE?
Haha, right?? Good times!
This thinly veiled ad hominem attack is unnecessary. If you don’t wish to read, understand, and form logical retorts in this thread you can ignore it. If you can’t ignore it, then don’t settle for writing it off as “conspiracy”.
Nobody is crazy, we just have slightly different ways of seeing things. Calling others “crazy” is another ad hominem attack, along with “conspiracy theorist” and “troll”.
Omg I can see this happening but I’m pretty sure the frankenstines are on vacation this week
Pingback: Joe Naugler’s Oldest Son Alleges Physical, Sexual Abuse; Children Not Returned | Homeschoolers Anonymous
Looking at the pictures I notice there are no toys. I know they had a couple games on her cellphone but I never saw a doll or a hot wheel when she worked for me .. I would gladly testify against them and so would my daughter.
Patricia,
In all seriousness, I would like to know what you would testify to. Since you state Mrs. Naugler worked for you, in what capacity did she work for you? Did you fire her? If so, on what grounds?
These are serious questions of mine, part of my effort to glean more information on this case.
Realize, too, that in a court of law, you cannot testify to anything other than what you’ve personally witnessed. Anything else is hearsay and stricken.
You say you’ve never seen a doll or a hot wheel, did Mrs. Naugler typically bring her children to work for you? Because the same could be said about me, but I rarely brought my child to work, and never brought her toys.
Did you have occasion to visit Mrs. Naugler at her residence?
Again, I’m not trying to provoke anything. Just trying to learn more.
I never went to her house but at the time she worked for me they had a large rent a shed they all lived in, she did not work for me long only a couple months before I fired her
I would rather answer specific questions to the proper people, but like I said I saw the burned hand and I saw the gash on the head.. And yes I fired her for numerous reasons, one of them being she decided to take the speciality item that we call bling like ties, flowers ect that were things only my shop did for the grooms and make them at home and sell them to my competition in town. Needless to say I was livid and she informed me it was her right to do what she pleased.. I was letting her work at 75% commission and she had no clients of her own and she was late every day then when I got on her about every day joe would walk her in like he was the body guard.. Her kids are thieves.. Joe would have them all sitting in their van outside the shop for hours … Joe burrowed money from my daughter to get drugs (pot) refused to pay her back and threatened my daughter and her boyfriend over it … I wrote a contract that said no children under 13 because she was bringing her children who were too young to be handling dogs to work .. When she came to talk to me about a job she said occasionally she liked to bring a kid in but it was daily and she was going to bring in her newborn too once it was born
Patricia,
Thank you. Must’ve been a real stressful time for you having an employee like this. Hard enough trying to run a business these days as it is.
Again, thank you so much.
I looked at the property records in Breckinridge County. The Naugler’s are not listed as owning (or purchasing) property. They may be leasing it from Mr. Gordon Board or his company, or perhaps they’re squatters. At any rate, when they state they own the property they’re not telling the truth.
I also spoke with a local business to ask them if they were customers and if they would recommend a donation to the family. They declined to give a recommendation at all. That’s pretty telling in a small community. Yes, they have been occasional customers for about two years.
I hope this post doesn’t violate any of the forum rules.
[Admin note: we edited the comment just to remove the street address. We don’t want to encourage doxxing of the family for the children’s safety.]
Let’s see, people who don’t seek government benefits or volunteer to take identification numbers [that have presumptions and waivers of rights attached] haven’t filed government papers with the local auditor regarding the transfer of property? That isn’t as uncommon as many would think.
That would leave the seller of the property responsible for paying the county taxes. If I were a seller I wouldn’t want to be legally responsible for anything once it was sold. Taxes, insurance, etc. That doesn’t make any sense whatsoever.
Oh, of course. There is a similar post elsewhere on this site where you will need to do the same thing. But please bear in mind that all of this is a matter of public record. If someone does a Kentucky business entity search, she lists the address. Breckinridge County also has the name of the property owner on file – another public record.
Ugh, the tone is coming across as harsh and that’s not my intention. I would send this directly to the administrator(s) but I don’t know how to do so and I may be overlooking a link.
I just looked up the term “doxxing” and I apologize for having done so (twice). There is another post on another thread awaiting moderation and it will need to be heavily edited. I won’t do it again.
here it is saying that Nicole have a property loan
but
why Joe did not get water from their new business Blessed Little Grooming LLC? They have water there.
Both Blessed grooming and Blessed homestead looks like a scam
especially when “friend from capistan” opened donation Gofundme and is media spoke man for Joe and Nicole
well interest 1% monthly is 12% yearly and it is not right to help someone who is living in such powerty
——————–
Nicole Naugler is one of the most skilled and respected groomers there is. Her Facebook page for Groomer Nicole has a flawless 5-star rating from dozens of past clients. She recently left the toxic authoritarian environment of her former employer, now competitor, in Radcliff, Kentucky. Now, Nicole is ready to start her own shop, Blessed Little Grooming Company, start making huge profits, and you can be a partner in that process. She has an AMAZING business plan that will allow her to triple the income of her family of 10 children. Not only can she start working fulltime and take on as many clients as she wants, but she can rent out three of her grooming stations, add kennels, furtography, boutique items, an outdoor dog park, and more.
Capistan is looking to raise at least $20,000 to loan to Nicole so she can afford to pay off her part of the renovation costs, some other setup expenses, and a few months rent at her brand new strip mall location, right in the heart of Radcliff. We’re setting a stretch goal of $60,000 which will do something amazing: pay off her property loan on the Blessed Little Homestead of 27 acres of virgin Kentucky woodlands, thus saving her hundreds in interest each year. In response, Nicole has agreed to make immediate monthly payments on her loan with 1% monthly compound interest on the remaining balance. This means that every backer is being promised a return of over 10% APR.
Not only is that a fabulous return for any type of investment, this is you staking your claim in Capistan. All principal and interest returned by our project recipients to Capistan stays in Capistan to be reused on new projects so it can grow and grow. Of course, you can always take your share and leave Capistan, or you can keep building up your private property there and choosing where you want to spend it. We invite you to give as much as you can. The land is wide open. Stake your claim in Capistan.
All of this may be true, but the owner of a Facebook page also has the capability of removing posts they don’t like. So a flawless 5-star rating doesn’t have much meaning. No one actually knows if the happy customers are customers or not. They may be friends trying to help out. BBB is just as bad, if not worse, because it’s a fact that if you pay BBB your rating increases.
This person investing in Nicole has never even met her. He met her online and has never seen her work as a groomer or where her family lives. I’m sure he is a businessman and means well, but he’s just another sucker.
Thank god (upper case gee purposely omitted) for CPS. Look how well they cleaned all those kids up, even before their timely arrival!
They are saying the estranged son was 4 years old the last time he was in the company of the father, Joe…… And he has memory of abuse…….. So, many of their current children are over the age of 4….. What are these, their current children, saying…?. Where are their voices in this? An awful lot of stock is being placed on the testimony of the estranged son. I don’t know about anyone else…. But, many of my very earliest memories happen around 6-7… And I, too, grew up in chaos…. Maybe not physical abuse…. But, still…. Be interesting to know what the current foster homes are seeing in these children.
Sad is the [so called] lemming like responses.
By their posts, a good many of the posters here need to consider reading a thing they may have heard of – the Constitution of the United States. They might want to also consider other documents, like the Federalist and Antifederalist Papers that relate to and make more clear the understanding of its adoption.
We do not have a central government and the District of Columbia, certainly, is not lord over us. To the contrary, each of the fifty united states is a sovereign country.
Authority for the federal government flows from the several states to it, not from it to them. More important, WE are the government and the powers enjoyed by the states and the federal government are at our pleasure. They are no more than our representative government.
To elaborate, the federal government is, per law, a jurisdiction foreign to each of the fifty states. That [granted] jurisdiction covers things like interstate commerce, but which is not relevant to the instant matter.
In the federal Constitution, you’ll find the following language: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.”
The family about which this article was written do not live in the District of Columbia. Nor are they operating in interstate commerce. Accordingly, they are not subject to its laws.
Consistent with the foregoing, nowhere in law is the federal government empowered to reach into one of the fifty sovereign countries we call states and compel a citizen of one of them to apply for a federal identifier, absent application of benefits.
A Social Security number is a federal identifier. To claim it is a mandatory condition of working is, in essence, to claim one must look to the federal government for permission to feed, cloth and shelter one’s self and family. Such is tantamount to claiming we have a central government.
Those trying to claim it is, somehow, abusive to not waive your child’s rights by way of seeking merely because someone says you have to are wholly ignorant of law, and little more than parrots misquoting fact.
There are many ways to identify one’s self. That can include obtaining identification issued by the state wherein one takes up housekeeping. That may be as simple as obtaining affidavits from three witnesses.
Thank you….. Now let’s hope people can comprehend what they are reading.
A big deal was made of that CPS was called and these people refused to cooperate. That is the essence of ignorance.
Essentially, those condemning are saying these people should have volunteered information CPS could use against them. In other words, that they should have waived their rights protected under both state and federal constitutions, or suffer some kind of consequences.
Take some time to read some case law on cases involving CPS. There are many such cases and, from reading them, it is common to find CPS agents pursuing unsubstantiated claims, violating law and rights
In Washington, CPS agents were acting on mere oral allegations to take children, sometimes merely because someone would not cooperate in their so called investigation. The Washington courts put a stop to it, since such acts were a usurpation of judicial powers, and without any of the requisite protections.
In one case, CPS’s records stated there was no basis for pursuing the action, yet CPS through everything they had at the parent merely because he had the audacity to challenge their acts outside the scope of their authority and cite criminal acts well documented to violate even the agency’s administrative procedures.
When making a criminal complaint, we are obligated to do it in writing and to do so under penalty of perjury. That is so disgruntled or ignorant people cannot make complaints on which government will act without being held accountable for injuries caused by false complaints.
In Washington, the Revised code, at RCW 9A.72.080, reflects the need for first hand knowledge of facts in complaints. It states: “Any statement not known to be true is false.” It’s that pesky “innocent until proven guilty thing.”
I gather many of you don’t realize WHY our government started requiring SS#s for children. Remember a few years ago when the Earned Income Credit was increased? It went from a little over 900 to being almost 2k. This is when they started reqiring the SS#s to keep people from claiming children they didn’t have. To keep a mother and father from claiming the same child, etc. But now, how many of you that are compaining about these SS#s for children receive a deduction on your taxes for your exemptions? Earned Income Credit? Child Tax Credit oh yeah that’s another 1000 per child under 16.
Are you saying that we should be thankful that the government gives us a little of our money back, after first taking it from us, if and only if we sign away some of our freedoms by registering with them?
That’s the perfect counter argument to the other popular one in this thread, that we shouldn’t NOT register with them or they’ll intentionally make our lives more difficult.
It’s amazing how you guys find every excuse to blame individuals and sympathize with the government. It’s unfortunate that the majority of Americans don’t value freedom. It’s even more unfortunate that you think badly of the few who still do.
And now for the Sovereign Citizen Manifesto…
“First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.”
It’s a bit different when democracy is in charge. As long as you’re in the majority, you should be OK.
The Naugler Defenders’ Manifesto
“First they stopped the van because at least one kid was bouncing around without a seatbelt, and I spoke out–
Because I thought that the right of any parent to decide that in the event of an impact their child should be launched toward the windshield at the prior speed of the car was inviolable.
“Then they showed up because the neighbor had reported them for theft with menacing, and I spoke out–
Because I thought that sitting on one’s butt most of the day and making up the deficit by stealing from the neighbors was an A-OK way to homestead.
“Then they came for the kids because they were living in dung-infused mud with no clean water on the premises and playing Russian roulette with their stomachs whenever they ate, there was no record that they were getting any education at all, and the only shelter on all 24 acres was so flimsy they’d had to sleep in their van for a week to avoid freezing to death, and I spoke out–
Because nothing in the whole situation was as important at the parents’ right to do as they pleased with 10 human lives.
“Then the eldest son described what life with his father had been like–and I pretended that he hadn’t, and went on spinning lurid fantasies about CPS selilng children and the neighbors wanting to steal 24 acres of ruined land.”
Just a quick fact – Mr. Naugler’s parental rights were terminated for his oldest son – there was enough evidence of abuse to warrant that action at the time. Furthermore – you can only shine rust for so long – they have stolen from local churches, they have a history of not being welcome in homeschooling groups and they have a history of abuse and neglect according to their oldest son. Regardless of all the hype and government issues – I would not leave my own kid in their care … Would you?
Nope, but I’d leave theirs.
Nothing against them as their way of life sounds very interesting, but I’d want to raise my children directly.
Personally I have a problem with the government having so much control in our lives; I think people should be able to live and raise their families as they see fit. Nor do I have a problem with the thought of living with out running water, electricity, or indoor plumbing after all that’s how my parents were raised for most of their childhood. However they did have a clean small home with four walls, a roof and a wood stove to cook on and keep warm; they also had a working well for clean water and an outhouse. Yes they grew up poor and had to work hard for everything they had. So I don’t think anyone should have their rights to live this life taken away from them, but if you choose to live this way then why not do it right? Build small house (who cares if it has dirt floors) as long as it keeps your kids safe and warm, dig a well so your family has clean water, dig a privy so you can get rid of human waste. Some of you might say they can’t afford it, well if one of them works or gets a government check then they have more money then you think, remember they don’t pay for rent , utilities, child care or school cost like the rest of us. Besides how much money do you think the settlers had and they made it work. Remember people being poor is no excuse for allowing your children grow up in filth nor is it a reason to threaten others. One last thought all of you who are defending them so strongly and say there is nothing wrong with what their doing why don’t give up your nice warm homes and go out in the woods build you a three walled lean to and let you family live in.
Extremist views are what is killing this country. I know I appreciated the public schools I went to, the fine roads and bridges I’ve driven over and the safety I do feel as an American citizen. I’ve lived in the same neighborhood my whole life and it’s great- not perfect of course- but still a place where I can routinely leave my front door unlocked and not have to worry about theft. I appreciate the local fire departments and police force paid for by taxes.
People are so stupid in this country. Why do you think that there even is Social Security? Because people were so poor in the 1930’s that they were living under bridges. People jumped out of buildings because they lost all their money in the stock market and bank crisis. The farmers got greedy and ruined a huge swath of land called the “Dust Bowl” and the government had to step in and help them.
Poor children were made to work in the coal mines and on farms instead of going to school- so public school education became mandatory.
Stop romanticizing the good old days- when children died of diseases and women were beaten by their husbands and had no rights.
I don’t feel that the government owns me. I know if I want to move to another country- I could. They aren’t going to stop me. The Naugler children will have tough time leaving their father’s little cult. They won’t get into college, having no proof of education or identification. They will have a hard time getting a job without a social security number. I’m not sure how they would get a drivers license with ease or even have the financial ability to run away from home. It’ a little prison camp and that’s not freedom.
“Why do you think that there even is Social Security? Because people were so poor in the 1930’s that they were living under bridges. People jumped out of buildings because they lost all their money in the stock market and bank crisis.”
Blame the banks, federal reserve, and government for that one. Are people greedy? Yes. And so are governments (and those who influence them). And that’s why the government needs to be kept in check from time to time and not allowed to grow into a giant, all-controlling blob.
“They will have a hard time getting a job without a social security number.”
Again, why blame the parents for this? It’s the government that makes their lives hard and it’s not a parent’s job to make life as easy as possible for their children. People have principles. The Naugler’s won’t sign away their children to the government, even if it would make their lives easier. Most women won’t engage in prostitution, and most people won’t murder others, even if that might make their lives easier. Life throws various hardships at individuals. We deal with it.
“Extremist views are what is killing this country.”
Hardly. It’s the mainstream and their government that’s “killing this country” (if indeed it’s being killed). You’ve been duped into thinking that “extremists” are the problem.
Ironically, “extremist” desires such as to have rights to raise your children as you see fit, carry a firearm, own property, etc, were what this country was founded on. Somehow, its citizens have lost sight of that, done a 180 turn, and now consider those same principles as the “problem”.
How are the Naugler’s killing the country, for instance? If they want to live off the grid and not put their children in school, that’s their prerogative.
“It’ a little prison camp and that’s not freedom.”
Freedom only exists in degrees. We are all living in a prison camp of some sort, and the amount of freedom we have is roughly inversely proportionate to the size of the government and its rules and restrictions.
Your desire to force your values upon everyone else and to take others’ children away for not raising them as you would builds the walls of the prison camp around those other people. Shame on you for talking about freedom! You may be free to do everything you want, because nobody is taking yours away (yet), but you espouse oppression of others and unpopular minorities.
So what your belief system espouses is anarchy. Our oppressive, overreaching American government is limiting our God-given “freedoms” ?
Well, I guess without a “government and its rules and restrictions”, you won’t a fire department to dowse out the flames to your home? Nor police to stop the criminal who robbed you at gunpoint, nor the judicial system that put the perpetrator away for a few years. No that’s right, you would shoot him yourself.
Correction—- you won’t need
Update to all the posters on this article, and thanks to R.L. Stollar for putting up with varying views.
The Naughler “home” and property was documented today by WAVE3 TV station in Kentucky. This was during a “cleanup” effort organized by the Naughlers. The children are still in foster custody.
You can view new pictures of their “cabin” and land, here. The photographs speak for themselves:
http://www.wave3.com/slideshow?widgetid=157540&slideshowimageid=1
The Naughler drama also has a Facebook page “Blessed Little Homestead”, and non-supporters have another page entitled “Nasty Little Homestead”, where various people in both camps have posted. Nicole Naughler and Pace Ellsworth post there as well. There may be other FB pages.
There are assorted FB pages printing unfavorable reports and commentary about the Nauglers and other FB pages opposed to those pages…and apparently Naugler supporters have been doxxing, issuing death threats, etc. I read at The Naugler Report myself; it’s devoted to screencaps and facts.
Last I checked, a birth certificate and ss number were OPTIONAL, not MANDATORY.
Birth certificates aren’t mandatory, but they protect your children and your parental rights. Without a birth certificate or witnesses to prove that your child was born in the United States- they could be defined as “undocumented” and if necessary someone could claim your child isn’t yours. That would be horrible. So in this day and age, it’s quite easy to have a birth certificate issued- either at a hospital or by a midwife. You can not get a drivers license in the US without a birth certificate, a social security number and proof of residence. You can not get legally married without a birth certificate. You can not get a job legally without a social security number (which you can’t get without a birth certificate). You can’t vote without getting a birth certificate. You can’t register for public school education without a birth certificate. You can’t go to college without a social security number. You can’t get a passport without a birth certificate and a social security number. Basically- you are screwed without one.
I think I read somewhere that in the state of Kentucky it is mandatory to report a live birth.
Pingback: Children of Joe and Nicole Naugler to Remain in State Care | Homeschoolers Anonymous
Goodness. Of course it is possible to safely care for children under primitive living conditions. I know, I was a camp counselor. I also spent some time the military. But this requires adequate sanitation, shelter from the elements, and dry sleeping space, with insulation in cold weather (Sleeping bags inside a walled tent at least.) Clean water to drink and cook and clean dishes with, grey water for other uses (cleaning house, cleaning yourself, watering animals and animals.) Adequate outhouse facilities. Well ventilated heat source. Erosion controls on a well sited living area. Disease vector controls – mosquito netting in summer, adequate corrals for livestock, guinea hens for tick control, etc you can be creative here but the goal is to keep creepy crawlies off your skin and out if your GI tract.